Intro 0:03
Welcome to Maximal Being, a podcast devoted to ditching fad diets and using real science to get you healthy and feeling great. I’m Doc Mok, a GI and functional medicine doctor who harnesses the power of gut health to get you achieving your goals. And I'm Jacky P, a well informed layman who challenges the experts and ask the questions that you want. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button or leave a comment, and now onto the show.
Doc Mok 0:32
What's going on Maximal Beings, Doc Mok here with maximalbeing.com. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button. Leave us a comment, it does help us to get the word out. If you have any questions, you can email us at [email protected]. Enjoy the episode.
Dr. Malafa, you talked about some of the benefits. So in my literature search some of the best trials that I found look at specifically benefits for cardiovascular disease. And guess what else is tagging along with Vitamin E, Jacky P, is our friend, oh my, omega three.
Jacky Homme 1:05
OMG
Doc Mok 1:04
Yeah. So all of those trials that showed benefit with vitamin E, they also paired them with omega threes, which I think is interesting. And I know in us discussing your specific research, you talk to me a lot about the the way that you deliver the tocotrienols in your specific trial, and how that's really important, too. So do you want to tell them a little bit about those co-delivery mechanisms?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 1:29
Yes, so the delivery is a big deal. Because one of the problems is that the one of the bad, I will say the negative things about nutrition and health is that sometimes we are not paying as detailed attention when we try to, to translate this to the clinic or to help patients and others to make it as rigorous as we would do for prescription medicine and all that. Okay, because what we're doing and some of the basic things that we all should think about are know, for example, if you're going to take a substance, it is a drug, whether we believe it or not. It's rarely yes, it's a micronutrient, or maybe it's a nutrient. But if you're taking it as a drug, then the some basic questions begin to be asked such as well, how much should you take? And if you take x amount, does it even, does it reach where you want it to reach? So if you if you if you are trying to treat, say breast cancer? Well, if you take x well, does it even get to the breast? Or do you know if you take this much, or if you want to treat colon cancer, is it getting to the colon is it? But a lot of this work unfortunately means a lot of hard work, which means it needs investment, which means it means, it needs what we call all the preclinical investment. And thank goodness for our federal government and the NIH and its ability to fund those. That's why we were able to learn as much as we've learned about nutrition because as you all know, unfortunately, because it's not a patented drug, you know, a drug that you can patent or molecule that you can, the drug companies are not interested in investigating. Okay, so they're not going to invest in the trials and in the investigations, that's going to give you very detailed, meaningful and clear knowledge so that you can apply it or use it intelligently in patients. So the challenges we have is to compete for grants to try to look for, for to develop that knowledgebase, to decide, alright, and we learn all the way from mice to humans. What happens when we give a compound? Well, we start to learn like right now I'm dealing with a phase two trial and having to go through the FDA to make sure that we get it approved to study it in patients. And we learn a lot when it comes to the to the manufacturing of these compounds. And you know, all the way from the source the natural product that we get it from. So like for example, the delta tocotrienol, I'm going to be using is going to be extracted from annatto beans, an annatto seeds, so annatto you know, they're coloring the, the grown they're native to South America and areas like this where actually that is what people use for coloring, like for coloring of food and all that. And a lot of times you know people have found that those. So when the FDA wants to know, how is it being grown, make sure that it's being grown in, you know, in a in a in a kind of ethical and you know sort of a natural what, what sort of contaminants could there be in that area? We start from that to when is manufactured, what are the different steps? What is its stability? Like a simple question like, okay, if you manufacture this today, if you get a capsule of it today, does it stay stable if you and how should you store it to stay stable for a few weeks or months or years. So all that sort of rigorousness you need to apply before you even start to give the compound to the patient. And then if you give them x milligrams, how much gets to the blood? How much gets to the pancreas or to the tissue? Like in our case, it's the pancreas we've been studying, and how much it gets to that. And what is the not the number that that gets excreted or that you lose? You know, and what we're finding out is that to be honest, we're not, they're not very efficient, the body's not efficient in absorbing all these compounds. And sometimes, if you take too high, if you take too little a doze, you don't have any effect, if you take too high, you may actually start to counter some of the effects. For example, with the vitamin E, I'm telling you, so we, the delta tocotrienol, in the body, the body tries to make it into alpha tocopherol, which is the ineffective, so if you take too much, you start to, kind of shift towards the other compounds. So you kind of have to take the correct compound, and we need to manufacture it and get it in a way that it will get to the best dose in the patient. So we did all the studies in mice and humans before we decided on the dose to do a phase two trial.
Jacky Homme 6:51
Yeah, that's an that's incredible, a I mean, it seems like from from what you're sharing here, that there's ,you've uncovered a lot of good information, but there's just so much more to go, there's still so much more learning, we definitely need to make sure that you know we have people out there, you know, because the drug companies don't want to fund this type of stuff. But you know, we got we got to fund this stuff people because sometimes you know, all these answers might be underneath, you know, something very easy to find. But I'm looking at the clock here and we are due for a break. So we will be back very briefly because I've got some questions for Dr. Malafa.
Doc Mok 7:31
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Jacky Homme 10:05
All right. All right. All right. Hello, everyone. We're back. It is I, Jacky P, your favorite layman. I've been hanging out with Dr. Malafa talking about Vitamin E oowee. And of course, the oh so bright and lovely Doc Mok and I just realize, Doctor Malafa you're kind of a Doc Mok too if you look at your first name. You know, if you think about it. It's a double Doc Mok type of day. No wonder my brain hurts so much.
Doc Mok 10:33
And he's got more, you know? Yeah, more. More knowledge.
Jacky Homme 10:38
So we've been talking about
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 10:41
Double Moks
Jacky Homme 10:42
Double Moks, I like it. So we've been talking about vitamin E, right? And its potential applications to help folks in my opinion, you know, what can be, what seems to be a naturally occurring supplement, right? Or that, that maybe will help folks benefit in a lot of different ways. But it is time to go through some questions. And I've got the three regular questions. And I've got some extra questions. And if there's time, weirdly enough, maybe Doc Mok, let me know. I'll call an audible here, maybe a Sham or Gram, maybe one? I don't know. So Doc, Doc Malafa, this is, you know, this might be hot seat, because we're going to do this quick. So we don't want to run out of time. But the first question, which is usually easy, what's your favorite health book?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 11:30
Oh, my health book, believe it or not, I'm really going to be ashamed to say it's, it's, it's cook books. And I love
Doc Mok 11:43
Like that.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 11:44
I love cookbooks. And, and I've been going through quite a few lately, actually, including, and I think the ones that really fascinate me. Some of the, what I would call you know, I wouldn't call them native, but they are like, original, like, for example, African American cooking, you know, Indian, you know, like Indian. Because, you know, we all know, there's a lot of Italian cookbooks out there. There's a lot of French cookbooks out there. But some of the other cook cookbooks that. So they are fascinating because when you start looking at ingredients, how people are mixing it, how you know, it's really fascinating. Yes. So
Jacky Homme 12:30
Cook books. I like that, you know, that's also scans, right? Because you're like, No, I forget these other vitamins that everyone's been studying. Let's pull out vitamin E, let's dust it off. Pull the books, you know, the dust off the shelf and talk about vitamin E. And so you're looking at the, you know, the the underrepresented culinary choices out there. And I respect that. I like that. All right. Second question. What is your favorite exercise?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 12:57
Ooh, that's easy. So soccer, I play soccer. Not as well as I did in my younger days, but soccer or walking, I actually found out that being on the treadmill or just walking is more effective, more easy to do. I control it. I get to it early in the day. I have to thank my brother for that. So I have I have my younger brother who is in phenomenal shape. How do he do it? he used to play basketball a lot? He played a lot of basketball with that. But what because he's a busy guy now. And I was like, Well, how do you how do you keep up? He wakes up at five in the morning. And then he does on his treadmill is six, seven miles. And that's all he has to do.
Jacky Homme 13:42
Wow.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 13:43
That's the discipline. Unfortunately, Dr. Mok and I are running to the hospital at that time.
Doc Mok 13:48
Yeah.
Jacky Homme 13:51
I mean in your defense you're on your feet all day.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 13:53
Yeah, I think I think that treadmill, you know, is so much easier. And you can catch up with the podcasts and everything while doing that.
Doc Mok 14:04
Like your favorite one, Maximal Being.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 14:06
Like my favorite one Maximal Being.
Jacky Homme 14:10
All right, wonderful. Moving right along. So next one, and there's the last of the layups, then we'll go into the hot seat. What is your favorite or not? Sorry, we just did that one. What is the strangest diet that you have heard of or been on?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 14:29
Diet? Actually, okay, actually, I've been on I'll tell you my, I'll tell you guys my favorite diet I've been. I've been on all kinds of diet was not been highly successful. But I think the best one has been the intermittent fasting. I've loved that.
Doc Mok 14:46
We love that too.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 14:47
I love that. And I do and that's what I do now. And I know it's got to be a winner because my wife just told me the other day she started intermittent fasting and for her to do anything I'm doing I know.
Doc Mok 15:02
it costs, it costs zero dollars. Literally no effort, right?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:07
Yes, yes.
Doc Mok 15:08
And it's pretty effective. And for my research patients at our center, I do recommend this for a lot of them in particular, the ones with insulin resistance, it's just a very potent insulin sensitizing modality.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:22
Yeah.
Jacky Homme 15:24
Okay.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:25
And the fact that you can dial it up and down, you know, like, oh, I want to go to, you know, weight losing do four hours, you know.
Doc Mok 15:33
Yeah.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:33
And if you want to just be stable six hours, then you kind of feel like, if you've been on the four hours for a while you go to eight hours, you're like, Oh,
Doc Mok 15:41
Yeah.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:41
I can eat like uh.
Doc Mok 15:42
Yup, Yeah, I did the 16 and eight for about three and a half years and just felt fantastic. While I was doing it. So.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 15:51
Yes.
Jacky Homme 15:53
All right, here we go. So, boom. So these are specific. So vitamins, right? We're talking about vitamins.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 16:01
Yes.
Jacky Homme 16:02
Which vitamins are better vitamins and bottle are naturally occurring vitamins in fruits and vegetables. If I say, hey, you know what, I got to get my vitamins up. Is there? Is there a quality difference? Will my body know the difference?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 16:17
Yes, I think they ones in the food and vegetable side, are better than a bad. Okay. So when we're talking about the what you talked about earlier, Jacky P, that is to say, you want to get your vitamins, get it through food, because I think it gets you the best. The problem is, if you're not going to get enough through your foods, then the supplements to get the vitamins make sense, okay. Now, and then we talk about when you want to treat something using the vitamins, that's when I think you need to draw, you need supplement, obviously, because you're not going to get the doses that you need the with food alone.
Doc Mok 16:59
The other thing I'll say Jacky P is that not all food sources of vitamins have the same vitamin content within them, right? Because of the way that we treat our environment. Because of the way that we treat our farmers. Because of the way that we mono crop things, a lot of our soil has been damaged, right, the microbiomes of our soil has been depleted. And therefore there's not as many nutrients in the soil that are delivered into the plants that are delivered into your grocery store and then into your mouth and into your body. So knowing how that food was treated in the soil that it was grown in, that really does make a difference in terms of nutrient density. And if any of you are interested out there, email me at [email protected] There's actually a monitor that you can carry around with you in the grocery store. That will tell you the nutrient composition of food as you're going around pretty interesting, right?
Jacky Homme 17:51
Wow. That's pretty cool. All right. Okay. Pretty smart. And also I just realize supplement the word itself. supplement is not the replacement. It's a supplement. Okay. Okay. Another question. And then after this, if we have time, I think we can I think squeezing the Sham or Gram, I'm feeling optimistic.
Doc Mok 18:10
I love it.
Jacky Homme 18:11
So vitamin, right, there's D3, I've seen vitamin D, there's a vitamin D complex. You know, for the lay folk out there, you know, why do we have vitamin A and you know vitamin C, but why does vitamin D have a complex and why is it? Like why?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 18:37
Yeah, no, that's cool Jacky P. I have no idea. What's the problem. why does vitamin D complex? Yeah, no. Well, actually, actually, it's, it's interesting and what Dr. Mok would say but so the vitamins, this is important supplements. vitamin supplements are basically chemical entities. So they're probably drugs. This is just as we talked about earlier, just a plug in again, for my vitamin E. So when we say vitamin E in nature, if you're just talking natural vitamin E, there's actually I said two family cough compounds, but the total chemical species is eight. So there are four in each family. And they are basically Alpha, Beta, Delta Gamma, Tocopherol, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma Tocotrienols. So that's the chemical species. So let's say I was gonna sell you a vitamin E, I could sell you Well, if you just use the generic term vitamin E. What I'm selling you is Alpha Tocopherol. And then I could tell you that oh, I want to sell you a complex of vitamin E. And then I could sell you a vitamin E that has a few of those different eight in different composition. Now, because different companies make different ones, and they have different claims, you know, a lot of them will, will put them together. That's why when you go to the store, you're going to see all of these different forms. But and then in other vitamins like vitamin D, and vitamin A, for example. And even and C they can get complicated because sometimes those complexes are actually not the natural, you know, they are chemical forms of the vitamin. So they make it because and sometimes the excuses are like, well, it gets absorbed better, if you have a certain kind of condition, it might get into your body better than another. So if you had this different complex, it will have different. So I think that's why they're so different. So that's why once we get into the realm of, of, of, you know, supplements, and I'm glad and you know, I'm hoping the FDA will get more and more rigorous with this is that we should not deceive ourselves. These supplements are like drugs, they really are drugs, you know, they are chemicals, we're putting chemicals in our bodies. And so and the manufacturer talking about manufacturing, they're manufactured by companies, and now they're protected. Once you call something supplement, you don't have to have the rigor that you do if you if you have a drug, but and then that opens up some questions because you know, then then the question is, you know, what are the practices are they going to cure? What are contaminants that could be in some of these some of these nutrient nutrients.
Jacky Homme 21:43
Got it.
Doc Mok 21:44
That's why we use fullscript with the people that we work with and Maximal Being is because they vet their supplement companies and do quality control similar to how the FDA does so. And then just to nerd out for a second Jacky P I have to get back to the vitamin D question because so there are two forms of vitamin D, active and inactive vitamin D2, Ergo Calciferol is the the vegetable based or plant based form of vitamin D and vitamin D3 Calcifer, Cholecalciferol is the animal derived version of it. So that's what D2 and D3 means for the listeners out there and that can both of them can be converted into Calcitriol which is the active form and they all have similar molecular structures like what Dr. Malafa was talking about with Tocopherols.
Jacky Homme 22:39
So Smart, He's so Smart, I mean both of you are so smart. But uh.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 22:44
He's a true nerd though.
Doc Mok 22:46
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 22:48
I'm just trying to be a pretender.
Jacky Homme 22:50
Doc Mok is.
Doc Mok 22:52
Doctor Malafa yeah.
Jacky Homme 22:48
He's a beautiful nerd.
Doc Mok 22:55
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Jacky Homme 24:45
Dr. Malafa we're going to watch something on the internet. Okay?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 24:49
Okay.
Jacky Homme 24:50
We haven't watched it before it was titled supplements. I figured we said supplements so many times we got to do it. It may apply. It may not. But let's go for it. So I'm going to share.
Doc Mok 25:00
And we're basically going to say, is there a scientific basis for this? Or is this a total sham that this person has created? Okay?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 25:08
That's what the Sham or Gram, I was trying to figure out. Sham or Gram, Yeah. Okay. I got you
Jacky Homme 25:13
Alright, alright.
Doc Mok 25:13
invented by Jacky P.
Jacky Homme 25:15
Yes.
Doc Mok 25:16
Patent Pending.
Jacky Homme 25:17
That's it pending. Okay. So Imma do a test here. Let me know if you can, if you can't hear it, let me know. All right. This is just titled supplement. And this guy's got a wicked mustache. I mean, all right. All right.
Video 1 25:32
D3, I'm taking 5000 IUs a day. What do you mean? I personally take a little bit more than that. How much you take? 50,000. Jesus Christ. Mondays and 10 or 20,000 on every other day? That's a lot. Why? I don't know. Yeah, that's right. Most people say, I don't know,
Video 2 25:51
Polish scientists looked at the Mayo Clinic's database, and they look at 20,000 people. And we've talked about this in our in their video that we recently published, one person had hypercalcemia out of those 20,000. And they had ranges people supplementing anywhere from 0 to 55,000 units a day.
Jacky Homme 26:13
All right. So weird cut I dont know how it started with Joe.
Doc Mok 26:18
Yeah.
Jacky Homme 26:18
Okay weird cut. We're not gonna talk about the production value.
Doc Mok 26:22
We're not gonna mention Joe Rogan.
Yeah. Poor Joe Rogan.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 26:28
Sham.
Doc Mok 26:28
Thank you everyone. That's it this has been Maximal Being.
That is a lot of vitamin D.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 26:40
That's a lot of vitamin D. Yeah, yeah.
Doc Mok 26:43
Yes.
Jacky Homme 26:44
I just don't know. I don't know I have a problem. It's tough. It's a little bit meta, because I have a problem with podcasts. Because every guy just like, you know, podcasts. And I think this is how this podcast was born, right? Because you just got these dudes who we don't know who they are just said, I'm taking 50,000 units of vitamin D everyday. And then he asked why. And he's like oh why you ask him why?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 27:11
Why? Why?
Doc Mok 27:11
Cause.
Jacky Homme 27:12
And Joe is like, okay, I guess.
Doc Mok 27:14
And then you have a guy that saying that Mayo Clinic is behind that practice, which I can ask my friends at Mayo Clinic, you can too Dr. Malafa. But I would definitely know.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 27:25
Yes, yes.
Doc Mok 27:26
That said, vitamin D, often more is better in the sense that if you're, if you're checking your levels, and you're being scientific about it, that levels greater than 50 are ideal for numerous health benefits, right? Not just bone health, but then even higher tends to be better than 50 or greater in terms of that randomized data. So but at around 80, in terms of the serum levels, that is when the benefits of vitamin D kind of plateau. So that's one of the benefits, you can go higher don't necessarily lead to clinical efficacy in terms of bone health, macular degeneration, regulation of glucose, you know, lip, lipid, lipid regulation, visualization or mobility, right to cancer risk, all these things kind of plateau around 80. So I would say for the listeners out there, if you are deficient. us doctors do tend to start with high doses like that, like 55,000 units, or 20,000 units. And then over about a month is when we go to more like the 4 to 5000 units, which I actually agree with Joe Rogan. With his dosing, that's what I recommend for our patients with pancreas diseases. But that said, if you are going to go higher doses or you do have deficiency, please make sure that you're being scientific about it. And you are checking levels, ideally with your health care provider and discussing those things with them. Not just
Jacky Homme 28:58
Joe Rogan, not with Joe Rogan. For sure.
Doc Mok 29:01
Exactly. So Sham
Jacky Homme 29:03
Sham.
Doc Mok 29:05
This has been awesome. Dr. Malafa.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:08
Oh, thank you. Jacky P, and Doctor Mok.
Doc Mok 29:12
Yes, we appreciate your wisdom.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:14
My namesake. Now, I heard Jacky P, named us as a namesake. So.
Doc Mok 29:20
But thank you for your wisdom every day and for today. If people want to come and find your soon to be clinical trial, Dr. Malafa. How can they find it?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:30
Yes, so it will be on the website. So we will send a link. Maybe by the time you get this we will try to get a link, put it with your podcast so that they can.
Doc Mok 29:42
So it'll be on the Moffitt website and.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:44
Moffitt website yes.
Doc Mok 29:45
And then clinicaltrials.gov. I would imagine.
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:48
.gov, yes, yes.
Doc Mok 29:48
And are there any keywords that people should search for in clinicaltrials.gov?
Dr. Mokenge Malafa 29:52
Yeah so IPMN. So this trial, by the way, is going to be looking at preventing the growth of this cyst can turn into pancreatic cancer we call IPMN. So if you have IPMN that is a side branch that is between one and three centimeters. This is a trial that could be for you.
Doc Mok 30:13
And we're really excited to have this opportunity because these patients are just dying for for things. But if you haven't done so already, go ahead and hit the subscribe button. Leave us a comment. It does help us to get the word out. You know if you have any questions for any of us, including if you want to look at that nutrient monitor, send us email at [email protected]. Jacky P, I had patients clamoring for one on one gut health consults with me. So guess who designed a new program at maximalbeing.com specifically for those people? This guy so I look forward to working with many of you. Now that that product is at maximalbeing.com. As always, I'm Doc Mok. I'm here with Jacky P and Dr. Malafa. And we are here to maximize your health.
The content included is not intended to be used as medical advice and viewers should consult their physician or health care provider should they have additional questions. The viewers should not rely on information contained in these presentation for immediate or urgent medical needs. Additionally, if you think you have a medical emergency, call your physician or go to the emergency department or call 911 immediately. Never disregard professional medical advice or rely on seeking medical care or delay medical care due to information contained in this presentation.
What's going on Maximal Beings, Doc Mok here. If you haven't done so already, leave us a comment and hit the subscribe button. Let your friends and family know that way we can get the word out and continue to bash the bro science.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
