Intro 0:03
Welcome to Maximal Being, a podcast devoted to ditching fad diets and using real science to get you healthy and feeling great. I’m Doc Mok, a GI and functional medicine doctor who harnesses the power of gut health to get you achieving your goals. And I'm Jacky P, a well informed layman who challenges the experts and ask the questions that you want. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button or leave a comment, and now onto the show. Welcome to Maximal Being, a podcast devoted to ditching fad diets and using real science to get you healthy and feeling great. I’m Doc Mok, a GI and functional medicine doctor who harnesses the power of gut health to get you achieving your goals. And I'm Jacky P, a well informed layman who challenges the experts and ask the questions that you want. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button or leave a comment, and now onto the show.
Doc Mok 0:33
What's going on Maximal Beings, Doc Mok here with maximalbeing.com. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button. Leave us a comment, it does help us to get the word out. If you have any questions, you can email us at [email protected]. Enjoy the episode.
Jacky Homme 0:47
You know, as with every answer comes more questions, Martha. I'm afraid we might not have enough time for my question. So I'm going to keep rolling here. But so. So, you know, you discovered this link right with the microbiome and neurodegenerative disease? So can you explain a bit about just you know, where are we on the spectrum from? I guess, the word I'm looking for, I guess it's like protection against it. Right. So for instance, maintain a healthy microbiome, right lifestyle, you know, probiotics and postbiotics? Like is are we at a place where you you seen data, hoping it maybe, I guess, prolong the onset of the symptoms? Or is it just more? Are we more interested now we're in the detection phase? You know, where would we be? Where are we currently? I guess, in that the research, I suppose?
Martha Carlin 1:47
Yeah, well, there's research and there's taking action. So, you know, I'm doing research because, you know, I want what I do to be backed up by, you know, scientific research. But at the same time, I also, time is not my friend, my husband has Parkinson's tried to help him, I went to a conf, a Parkinson's conference in 2016, with my husband, in Portland, Oregon, and at the time, you know, he's had some ups and downs over the years, and he was having a down at that time, and was having trouble with gait freezing and difficulty navigating crowds. And at that conference, there were some researchers from Israel who were presenting data that showed that the sugar alcohol mannitol could stop the aggregation of the proteins. And I was like, wow, and they showed in the animal model, not only did it stop the aggregation of the proteins, but they also showed that it pulled them out of the brain and remove them. So I came back and started studying, I got this little book on mannitol chemistry. And I'm like, wow, this is like one of the most amazing molecules I've ever seen. And the first chapter in the book was basically microbes that make mannitol. So there's a few microbes that make mannitol, the rest of them use it as a carbon food source. And so I started looking at that and talking to a friend of mine who had spent 20 years in the probiotics industry. And I said, like, could we can we make a formula that would basically put back mannitol production in the gut. And these bacteria do that by converting glucose, and fructose in the mannitol. So Steve was able to help me we called around and got samples and made this little prototype batch of probiotics and gave it to my husband. And within 30 days, he was not walking with a cane anymore. And we were measuring his microbiome and seeing that it was moving back to the healthy human microbiome profile. We kept measuring for about 120 days in that process. And then we did some other stuff after that, but his there's something called the UPDRS score, which is how they measure how far advanced your Parkinson's is. And in 2017 his UPDRS score was a 35. The higher it is the more advanced and after a year on the probiotic it had dropped to a 20 and it stayed at a 20. For four years. It was very stable until he had COVID at the end of 2021. And so then we, you know, started the process over of rebuilding, but some interesting things. So people who did not do as well, with COVID were people who had low bifidobacteria. And in our Parkinson's data, they also had low bifidobacteria. So we maybe had given him some kind of a backup with this probiotic. But you know, when he got COVID, he still didn't have enough to do what he needed to do to not have some longer term damage from that.
Doc Mok 5:16
Jackie, I know we're up against a break.
Jacky Homme 5:18
Yeah. Go ahead, go take it away Doc.
Doc Mok 5:20
But, Yeah, yeah, sorry, I interrupted you again. But COVID has so many deleterious effects on the gut microbiome itself and the intestinal barrier. And this is beyond the scope of I think what we have time to talk about, but, you know, it's like a two hit. So not only does it alter the composition of your gut, but there are direct components to that viral structure that poke holes in our gut and intestinal barrier, and so very common and the first patient I ever saw with COVID, before we even had testing that person, and a lot of about 60% of patients do have a diarrheal, prodrome to the upper respiratory tract infection. Back to you Jackie P.
Jacky Homme 6:03
And can I add, before we go to break, I remember something about bifidobacteria and I'm very proud of myself. bifidobacteria were when we're born, you have a lot of it in your tummy. And there was a correlation, correct me if I'm wrong, Doc Mok with folks. That's why like, young kids didn't have it as much because they had high bifidobacteria in their gut, something along those lines, but I remember bifidobacteria and I feel very proud of myself that I remember it.
Doc Mok 6:31
Yeah bifidobacterium is overall a good guy. It's overall a good guy.
Jacky Homme 6:35
Bifido Thank you. Alright, so yeah,
Martha Carlin 6:39
Say Bif
Jacky Homme 6:40
Bif Yes. Yeah. Thanks, Bif.
Doc Mok 6:41
Yeah.
Jacky Homme 6:43
But we're so late for a break. So we'll be back in just a second, folks. Do not go anywhere cause I've got some questions, and I think we'll squeeze in a Sham or Gram.
Doc Mok 6:54
Are you a health care practitioner searching for a comprehensive solution to streamline your patient referrals and improve collaboration with other practitioners? Look no further than Rupa Health, the ultimate platform for integrative and functional medicine practitioners. As a health care practitioner who has struggled with the traditional referral process for labs, it's time consuming, inefficient, and often lacks the necessary communication between providers and patients. But ever since I started using Rupa Health, everything has changed. That's right. Rupa Health is revolutionizing the way that practitioners connect and order lab work with their patients. Their advanced platform allows you to effortlessly send and receive patient lab referrals and secure their information, sending them the kits directly. This makes the communication directly with other patients and practitioners easy to take care of. I can't stress enough how much time and energy Rupa Health has saved me. With just a few clicks, I can easily order lab work and track their progress and then I receive the results directly into my inbox, which I can send to the patients automatically with recommendations. Absolutely, Rupa Health’s extensive network of lab testing and curated integrated and functional medicine testing allows practitioners to receive the highest quality of care and dedicate their practice to a patient centered holistic approach which aligns perfectly with the values of health care in a functional medicine practice. Plus, Rupa Health provides you with excellent customer support. Their team is responsive, knowledgeable, and always helps with assistance in billing questions, and how kits are shipped to your patients. They are dedicated to helping practitioners like us provide the best possible care for our patients and if you're a patient listening, it allows you to seamlessly order your lab testing and receive all the necessary information. Rupa Health has been a game changer for my practice and as you know it will be for yours too. Don't miss out on this incredible opportunity to save on lab testing by heading to labs.RupaHealth that's R-U-P-A .com\store\storefront_ V as in victory, G as in grape, X 0-0-4-0-0. That's labs.rupahealth.com\store\storefront_vgx0040. I'll see you later Maximal Beings.
Jacky Homme 9:27
All right, everyone. Welcome back. I hope you missed us because we missed you. We are talking with Martha Carlin. And we've been talking about the microbiome and the connection from our microbiome, which also isn't only in your tummy and neurodegenerative diseases. I always gotta like, stop and think about it before I say that. So Martha, I've got some questions. I'm gonna hit you with the three questions. And then we're gonna try to squeeze one or two Sham or Grams All right. So always lay ups. Right. So what is your favorite exercise?
Martha Carlin 10:10
My favorite exercise, it really is walking. I live on a farm and I love walking around the farm and just being in nature and in Kotlin, we lived in Colorado, hiking in the mountains. So just that combining the exercise with the outdoors.
Jacky Homme 10:29
And fresh air and study show just being out in nature lowers your cortisol puts you in a better mood. So I'm all for my wife and my family. We were in Poconos over President Day weekend, and I felt outdoorsy, you know just breathing in that non Philadelphia smog was nice for a couple days.
Doc Mok 10:50
And walking is direct walking is directly correlated to longevity, lower risk of cardiovascular disease, lower risk of cancer, lower risk of basically every health condition, the more you move, the better.
Jacky Homme 11:02
A body in motion stays in motion. simple physics. Awesome. And I have a feel like I feel like I may know the theme of this answer. But what is your favorite? What is your favorite health book? And why?
Martha Carlin 11:18
Ooh, gosh, actually, I have this little book. It's called the Life Bridge: The way to longevity with probiotic nutrients. And it really tells the story of how microbes do all these incredible functions for us of making nutrition bioavailable.
Jacky Homme 11:39
Awesome. Nice. Okay, okay. Yeah. And actually, there's gonna, there's gonna be a two parter question. So I'll circle back after I get this answer. But what is a craziest diet you've been on or heard of?
Martha Carlin 11:55
Well, I might give you a two part answer. So the craziest diet I think I've heard of was when we were collecting the stool samples, and we got this stool sample that was white. And the person had had nothing but milk for, like, over a month. So that was, that was kind of a shocker. And then for me, I don't normally diet. But I actually started looking at the work of this guy named August Dunning, who is a, he's a physicist at Caltech. But he has a book about dry fasting. And so I actually did a four day dry fast. So no food, no water, you know, and that people say, oh, like you can't, you know, you'll die after three days. Well, it's really not true. And I could have gone longer, but I was getting ready to travel. And so I'm gonna try that again, I think, because I just felt incredible after I did it.
Jacky Homme 13:03
Oh, interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of the dry fast. That's new to me. And I'm a big fasting, I'm a I'm a I'm a fan of the fast. So that's interesting. I'll take a look into that. And you kind of answered my second question was, you know, what type of data typically do you also get want to get the fecal samples? You know, if it's just like demographic data? I'm assuming there's some sort of things but diet, I guess, would be also an important data point, right?
Martha Carlin 13:35
Yeah. So we had a dietary questionnaire, we asked about supplements and medications that people were taking, general life history lifestyle. And I also think I had this idea, I haven't done it yet. I haven't had the money to do it. But to make this kind of one page diagram of your life story, and I, I tell people just draw, draw a picture. Like, what? How were you born? What are the stressors like all of these things? Because as I started to read people's questionnaires and stuff, I'm like, you could put this visually on a piece of paper. And then it would be so much easier for a doctor to be able to know your story. And your story informs your internal ecosystem, and really what's going on with your health.
Doc Mok 14:28
And we do that in functional and integrative medicine. We put things on this timeline. And it's exactly that we talked about the things leading up to the traumas that they've gone through, you know, big life events, and people can really pick out those major events pretty well.
Jacky Homme 14:45
Okay, Okay, nice. So I've got some Sham or Grams lined up. We've got some time I really want to get through some, and I'll be honest, the few that we have here, I try to see if we You can steer them towards what the? You know, it's timely for our topic. So I could be wrong because we, you know, we don't know what these contain. So I'm gonna give you three options. All right? And you let me know which one you want to dig into. So we've got 48 hour water fast only because we just talked about fasting. The other is food quality. And the third is just says beef, salt and water. What do you think Martha?
Martha Carlin 15:33
I like all of those. So you guys pick.
Jacky Homme 15:38
Let's, you know, let's let's go beef, salt, and water. I think we have 10 minutes. So I think maybe we can squeeze all three in. Alright, so let's see.
Doc Mok 15:47
Let's do it.
Jacky Homme 15:48
Alright, so I gotta Oh, yeah, I forgot. I've got to share the whole screen. There's a whole situation here. I always forget. Boop. All right. All right. So Jordan Peterson. Okay. Well, we'll see. All right.
Clip 1 16:06
No, I eat beef and salt and water. That's it. And I never cheat. Ever. Not even a little bit. Nothing.
No soda, no wine?
I drink club soda.
Well, that's still water.
Well, you know when you're down to that level, though. It's not. Joe. There's there's club soda, which is really bubbly. There's Perrier, which is sort of bubbly. There's flat water and there's hot water. So it kicks in start to become important.
That's crazy.
Yup
Well, we ate last night and I ate well, you ate? Just we both had that giant tomahawk.
Yup
I had wine though.
Yup
I'm curious about this. I'm very curious.
Yeah me too.
I might try it. But I eat a lot of vegetables.
Yeah.
But I don't have any problems. Like health problem.
Hey, man, like I'm disclaimer number two. I am not recommending this to anyone out there.
Oh there he goes.
However, I have had. However, I have had many, many people come up to me on the tour and say, Look, I've been following your daughter's blog. And I've lost like 100 pounds.
Doc Mok 17:08
The weight loss tool, I think, essentially is what he's selling it as.
Jacky Homme 17:12
I'm assuming. So I I don't know what I haven't, I guess beef salt in the water. So he's only eating steaks? And chops. I mean, I don't I don't know. But there's anything to take away from that.
Doc Mok 17:28
Yeah, I mean, I, you know, Martha, I don't know how you feel. It's not like he's saying like, everybody should do this. Right? He's, he's saying it worked for me, which I have. I've had patients that the only thing that helps their gut symptoms improved as a carnivore diet, like very minimal vegetable intake. And it's because of the we've analyzed their microbiomes. And we've determined that a lot of the composition is more meat loving bacteria. And they've they've done well, but they're the minority of people. Do you have thoughts about this month?
Martha Carlin 17:58
Well, it's interesting. So I'm also part of a Keto group, but I do like keto flexing. But that's would be considered a very strict level for carnivore. And it can be very anti inflammatory. But you've got to be able to be adapted, fat adapted and able to use and produce energy. But I actually saw an interview recently with a woman, they showed a Dave Berry showed a picture of her 20 years ago, she was morbidly obese, all kinds of health problems. And she moved to a strict carnivore diet. And she says, that's all she's eaten for the last 20 years. And I mean she looked phenomenal, not even like the same person. So I'm not recommending that for people. But I do think it can be unexpectedly beneficial. And I actually know somebody who's coming out with some data on the microbiome, who did 90 days of carnivore and was told he did a test beforehand. And they're like, you know, don't eat red meat, don't eat all this. And then he did 90 days of carnivore. And actually his microbiome improved. A number of the keystone species came back. So there's, there's probably more to this than meets the eye.
Doc Mok 19:29
The end, I have two other two other things to add, Jackie if that's okay. The one thing I'll say is that, you know, to eat only meat, that meat does have to have fat content. Otherwise, you'll go into something called rabbit starvation, like rabbit like the animal. And that's where you disregulate your biochemical pathways due to lack of other fuel sources. You cannot just turn amino acids into all fuel sources for all biochemical pathways, people can really get sick from that. So you need to make sure that if you are doing something carnivore that you're either having plants or you're having some sort of fats, you're either having some carb or some fat. And then the other thing, Martha, I don't know if this popped into your brain is the link of TMAO trimethylamine oxidase, which is, which is primarily generated when we eat animal products, and that it interacts with our microbiome. And there's a link of causing plaques in our arteries and that compound and the microbiome, you have thoughts about that?
Martha Carlin 20:36
I think, I don't remember the paper. But I was reading something recently, if you have certain bacteria that TMAO is converted into something else that's beneficial. But if you don't have those bacteria, then that's when you get these kind of deleterious effects. So you know, it's something you definitely need to know what you're doing, and not just you know turn around, and I'm going to start eating steak all day tomorrow. And the other thing I would say is you really need to have quality meat, it needs to be good quality grass fed meat, if you're going to do something like that. Not you know, 299 a pound at the you know, that came out of the feedlot.
Doc Mok 21:16
It also sounds really expensive. You know, the cost of beef is so high like.
Jacky Homme 21:23
Yeah.
Doc Mok 21:24
How does he afford that?
Martha Carlin 21:25
It's my understanding that you're really not that hungry. So you probably do more like an OMAD which is one meal a day and you're totally satisfied and you're just hungry.
Doc Mok 21:36
I don't think you've seen me eat though. Martha.
Jacky Homme 21:40
Martha, if you see Doc Mok's calf muscles. That thing requires calories to be maintained. He's got the watermelon ones.
Doc Mok 21:49
At least one steak per leg, so.
Jacky Homme 21:51
Yeah.
Doc Mok 21:54
Are you looking for high quality evidence based supplements to support your functional medicine practice? Look no further than Fullscript, the leading platform for healthcare practitioners to prescribe an order professional grade supplements. As a functional medicine and gastroenterology doctor, I trust Fullscript to provide me with a wide range of high quality supplements that meet specific needs of my patients. Their extensive product catalog includes trusted brands, ensuring that I have access to the best options for my patient's health. That's right. Fullscript offers a comprehensive selection of supplements, including vitamins, minerals, botanicals, and specialty formulations, all sourced from reputable manufacturers. Plus their rigorous quality control ensures that you're getting products that meet the highest quality standards of purity and potency. And what I love most about Fullscript is the convenience it offers. With their user-friendly online platform, I can easily browse, prescribe, and manage supplement protocols for my patients. It saves me valuable time and streamlines the ordering process. Absolutely, Fullscript makes it easy to create customized protocols for your patients and track their progress. Plus they handle all the logistics from inventory management to shipping so you can focus on what matters most, providing excellent care to your patients. So if you're ready to take your functional medicine practice or wellness to the next level, visit us.fullscript.com/welcome/maximalbeing that's us.fullscript.com/welcome/maximalbeing to receive your 15% discount on customized supplements and check Maximal Being standardized protocols for gut health. Fullscript has been a game changer for my practice. And I know it will be for yours, don't miss out on this incredible resource for functional medicine practitioners and patients alike today.
Jacky Homme 23:44
We're almost at a shot clock here. So you might we got to do one in here we got 48 hour water fast. Or..
Let's do that.
Okay, let's go for it. Alright, so let's do this again. All right, here we go.
Clip 2 24:04
The best way to discuss self growth, do one fast. You know how much growth hormone costs a small .1 injection is about $400, .1. A two day fast, produced a 2,000% increase in your growth hormone production in a man and 1300 in a woman now why would I want growth hormone because growth hormone is the hormone that keeps you young. It's the growth hormone that makes your skin better. That replaces the dead parts better and your muscles grow. So your muscles actually grow. So you do you do 10 reps you're going to put on more muscle than if your growth hormone is low.
Doc Mok 24:50
This is return to Sham or Gram by this cardiologist.
Jacky Homme 24:53
He, yeah, he is. We've seen him before because he's in his little Florida scrubs.
Doc Mok 25:00
Yeah.
Jacky Homme 25:00
I do have to comment on the random guy in the corner. If you're watching us on YouTube. I don't know, this become a trend, people just nodding along to the video and not adding anything to it. It. It's for some reason, it always triggers me. I'm like, why are you nodding along? Just repost it and say, Hey, this is good information. I don't need to see..
Doc Mok 25:21
Hey 1100 comments,
Jacky Homme 25:24
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you know. So. I mean, I don't I don't know, Doc, what? What do you got?
Doc Mok 25:34
I do think fasting is a beneficial thing for the reasons that we've already talked about. And we've talked about previously. I think that his what he said in this particular Sham or Gram was okay. I have not liked some of the other things that he said in his presentation. So I'm a little colored by that by, so maybe Martha's a better person?
Martha Carlin 25:59
Well, I have a question because he talked about it, like building up muscle mass and growth hormone. And typically, like fasting kicks off autophagy, which is a breakdown.
Doc Mok 26:09
Yeah. True.
Martha Carlin 26:10
So I was kind of trying to figure out that connection. But you know maybe because he's talking about two days, you don't really kick off autophagy until day three of a fast so.
Doc Mok 26:22
Yeah.
Martha Carlin 26:23
Do and those first several days. And they it didn't really say water fast in there. I didn't hear him say water.
Doc Mok 26:30
No and..
Martha Carlin 26:31
So I do think there are definitely differences between a water fast and a dry fast.
Doc Mok 26:36
Do you think he talked about insulin? I think he meant insulin like growth factors which are somewhat up regulated during fasting states. Maybe that's what he meant. I just I know this guy, and I just know his. Yeah, I just know that he doesn't always connect the dots. So
Jacky Homme 26:57
He has a track record here at Sham or Gram.
Doc Mok 27:04
Not hating on him, but the root of message is good. Yes. Take a break from eating sometimes.
Jacky Homme 27:10
Yeah, yeah. And also, let's talk about autophagy a little bit, I'm gonna wave the flag just again, there might be some first time listeners learning about fasting and might be curious about it. You know, if if you can Martha maybe break down, you know, pretty quickly for lay man, you know, like, what is that autophagy that starts off in that day three during the fast.
Martha Carlin 27:34
So that's the term means self eating. And it's essentially a process in the body, when you stop putting fuel in, your body will start to seek out damaged cells basically, and eat them up and recycle them down into, you know, basically the essential amino acids that they can then be made into other things. And so it's a cleanup process. That's really one of the most beneficial things about fasting is you're cleaning up all these damaged proteins and cells and things like that. And that's what it is.
Jacky Homme 28:12
Nice. Okay. You know, I gotta say, Martha, you, you have really brought the heat with the microbiome talk, we really appreciate you coming in and sharing your knowledge. You know, of course, I've run out of time. And I wish we can, of course, always talk longer, and always happy to have you back. Because there's so much more to talk about, right? We've only really kind of scratched the surface of the iceberg. But, you know, one thing we haven't talked about, and maybe this could be like, our last piece is really more of the qualitative nature of the diagnosis. And I don't know, there might be someone out there who has dealing with a loved one who has a recent diagnosis or has been diagnosed themselves. And, you know, no pressure, but is there anything that you would like to say to those folks that might be starting that journey? And, and, you know, he just kind of words would have for them?
Martha Carlin 29:13
Sure. I mean, one of the things I really have devoted myself to is giving people hope that there actually is, there are actions they can take, they don't just have to take the diagnosis and go sit on the couch and wait to die. There are lots of proactive things that they can do in changing their lifestyle that will change the trajectory of the disease and give them a better quality of life along the way. And a lot of that does have to do with looking at the food that you're eating, getting out moving, exercising, you know, motion and staying in motion is so important in neurological disease and exercise. Actually, my husband was involved with Jay Alberts from the Cleveland Clinic and getting cycling programs all across the country, because they have actually shown that riding a stationary bike three times a week, for an hour at a specific cadence will lower your symptoms by 35%. So there's all kinds of things you could do. And I, I actually have a personal blog called Martha's quest where I write about alternative therapies and diet and, and just the microbiome research to give people tips or books or other doctors, they might want to look at their material on YouTube, and learn more about taking back their own health into into their own control as much as they can.
Doc Mok 30:47
Are there any other ways that people can reach out to you if they want to send you their stool? How can they do that?
Martha Carlin 30:54
Well, we actually don't take stools anymore. So we used to we stopped doing that during COVID. But there are some great companies that do that. And microbiome Labs has a test and Genova, you know, some of the through a functional doctor or there's one called NirvanaBiome that you can just order through the mail. So, unfortunately, we're not we're not collecting the goods anymore.
Doc Mok 31:22
Martha this has been an enlightening conversation. I hope that people out there now better understand the link between the brain and the gut. For those of you that haven't done so already, go ahead and hit the subscribe button. Leave us comment really does help us to get the word out. If you want to reach out to us or any one of our wonderful guests, shoot us an email at [email protected]. Also, if you want to take our gut health course, launched, I'm getting some great comments from people, health care providers and non healthcare providers about that material. So head to maximal being.com and sign up for that. And as always, I'm Doc Mok and I'm here with Jackie P and Martha Carlin and we are here to maximize your health.
The content included is not intended to be used as medical advice and viewers should consult their physician or health care provider should they have additional questions. The viewers should not rely on information contained in these presentation for immediate or urgent medical needs. Additionally, if you think you have a medical emergency, call your physician or go to the emergency department or call 911 immediately. Never disregard professional medical advice or rely on seeking medical care or delay medical care due to information contained in this presentation.
What's going on Maximal Beings, Doc Mok here. If you haven't done so already, leave us a comment and hit the subscribe button. Let your friends and family know that way we can get the word out and continue to bash the bro science.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
